Insurance should be one of the first things you consider when setting up your junk removal business. Lee with the Junk Removal Authority talks about different types of insurance for you to get to protect yourself. NOTE: A "mistake" was made when talking about minimum insurance requirements for auto in North Carolina. There is no minimum requirement for Collision coverage. You don't even have to have a collision. Subscribe to this channel for all the best junk removal industry info Like and follow us on Facebook at Junk Removal Authority

Alright, correct. Junk removal and perspective jumping mobile business owners, this is another episode of junk removal made simple by the junk removal or d, uh, today, voice cracking there. I’m 13 today. We’re talking about insurance you show wants. I’m looking at a lot of questions about insurance. What kind of protection do I need? How much protection do I need? What I’ll remind everybody is the point of insurance is to keep a bad event, a negative event, be it an injury in an automobile accident, uh, damaging property to keep that occurrence from financially ruining you. So for, you know, if you can, if you have the income coming in and you’re doing enough volume of business, um, you, you just got to be tough to achieve this in Japan. But there are certain circumstances you don’t necessarily need insurance. Like for example, life insurance, you know, if you’re worth, if you’re worth, if you have $50, million dollars in the bank, you know, if you’re worth several hundred dollars, million or 50,000,000 the bank or you have a lot of income producing property or at other investments, you probably don’t need a life insurance policy, you know, you, you just, you probably don’t.

You probably have enough investments to protect your loved ones that when you pass are protected. So, and then you’ve got to have really, really large corporations that, um, uh, had bringing so much money, they’ll, they’re self insured because it would cost them so much in insurance and they bring in enough money that if somebody gets it, there’s people that, companies that have a self insured, healthcare policies like saks locally here, they have so much money and they have so many team members. It’s cheaper for them to be self insured where they actually pay the, uh, they pay all medical bills out of their own company policy. Now again, you’re not going to achieve that. A junk removal business. There’s no way. There’s just not enough demand. The volume to be able to ever get to that size, I mean 100 got junk isn’t even close to being able to do that.

So that won’t happen in your case. But remember, the point of insurance is to prevent you from being financially ruined. So you can be over insured, meaning you can have too much insurance coverage that it’s just technically not possible to, you know, there’s just no way you’re going to have that much damage that’s going to encourage you. Don’t be overcharged. But the worst thing, the worst thing is being uninsured. So like for example, in North Carolina, the minimum automobile policy that’s required is $300,000 liability and I think it’s a $50,000 to 50 or a hundred. I think it’s $50,000 in collision. Well, think about how many, uh, you know, let’s say if you run into a family that you run, there’s is a $100,000 Mercedes with four people with a family of four in it. You run into them and all of them have medical bills.

You’re going to exceed $300,000 and legally you’re supposed to make up that difference. So what you need, you need at minimum in case automobile will cover this in a bit, but at minimum a million dollars liability and I can’t remember what we have on collision, but I mean I’d have more than $100. I’d have over 100,000. I probably have $300,000 or something like that, you know, we might not be quite 300,000, but at least the minimum or kill you is the liability that you need a million dollar liability policy because that should just about cover you. It is possible to do more than that. Uh, and at that point you just going to have to, you know, you have to figure it out, but it’s very, very highly unlikely. So first opera, this is first time of protection we’ll talk about is your general business liability a bill? A 10. Okay. So your general business liability, it’s just going to basically, um, cover damage to property when you are not moving an item or doing anything where you’re loading a vehicle. And that’s inside the House in Senate office building back shed. It’s kind of weird, but actually if you damaged property, um, when you were, when you, you’re bringing item, no matter where it is. And did the final destinations, did you go into your truck to be transported the landfill or sold or donated or recycled? Then that actually falls on your automobile insurance policy. So damage to property while not loading vehicle.

So that means if you’re providing general labor for the customer, we get people to call us, hey, we just want to move some stuff around the house. If you damage something in that person’s house and the stuff is not going to be loaded in your truck and any point, then that falls under your regular liability policy. It’s also if you like, leave a tool out or leave something in a away and somebody gets hurt. So. And that somebody, is it not unemployed? So if an employee gets hurt because of anything related to working is follows on your workers’ compensation policy. I, in this case, this would be you left something out in the middle of the walkway. You left a shovel laying on the ground, somebody walks up and you know, they step on the show on the bar, comes up and man hits him in the hand and have to go, you know, get married, you know, get looked at or whatever, you know, shooting, but maybe they do. That would fall under your liability policy. Um, liability. General liability is cheap.

You should under 1K  at least in North Carolina and in and in my experience in some other states, that’s the case. Places like California or something like that, it might be a bit different. We haven’t worked. I’m the only customers we have in California or ad words customers. We haven’t done a business package. We haven’t done any consulting work in California, so simply haven’t done research on it. Regardless, all of this is based off my knowledge. I’m not an insurance expert. I’m not an insurance agent. You need to check with your local insurance agents could form all this information that you’re getting here and to look into your particular policy. This is just my experience in the state of North Carolina having a lot of junk removal business for six years, so I have a decent understanding of it. I’m not an expert though. She always even consult an expert before making any decisions on your insurance policy or what you did, how much need, all that kind of stuff. But these are, this will give you enough information, but you’ll know enough about it. You can ask the right questions to that insurance agent. Okay. So your automobile policy, so most of you probably know you’ve got liability protection and a liability is going to be, you know, if you injure passengers or you know,  or anybody else in your vehicle or I want to word that or persons in other vehicle and I’ve be pedestrians too. And then also that’s a of a property I said something incorrect or also I was talking about automobile and I was talking about,

I might not be completely clear anyway. So this right here, this recovers people’s other property. Collision covers your vehicle. So you just need your collision center and at a rate enough on at a high enough rate to repair or replace and replace your vehicles. So, um, that’s, that’s Kinda how you’re going to do your collision. Alright? So your liabilities most important, you need at least a million dollars.

No, that will protect you. That should protect you from hurting other people or a damaging other property. Uh, hopefully what he, you know, it’s kind of a gray area or not a gray area that’s, you know, that still might not be quite enough in a really, really bad situation, but it should cover you 99 point nine percent of the issues you had. You would have owners, owners driving record, try and keep a good driving record. Um, I won’t write that on there, but your, your or driving record here really affect your insurance rates. If you have a bunch of speeding tickets under the business. If you have a bunch of speeding tickets and you have a bunch of. I’m a Ra and fall accidents or anything like that and expect to pay a lot higher even if you’re not going to be driving that much, are they based the rates mainly off the owner? Uh, when it comes to a small business, you’re going to pay a premium for inexperience drivers.

Normally something like three, $400 for the period of a year for each inexperienced driver you have. And they consider it an experienced driver, a driver with under three years of driving experience. They will typically, depending on the policy, if you’re willing to pay that premium, they’ll typically get insurance. But if they get in an accident that a lot of times they tell you they knew that they are no longer covered under insurance, they’ll pay for that one accident, but that from here on out, you don’t need to have them draw me and then a collision just enough to replace vehicle.

So the value add enough to replace the video that he actually get an accident. His thing is total. And your stated value may or may not come into play. That’s when you really have to do some negotiation with insurance companies because you could have a vehicle if it’s only worth $10,000, but you’re not going to place it for $10 and you’re not gonna find a comparable vehicle out there and it’s reliable for $10,000, you’re probably going to be closer to maybe 25 and 30, so stay at high enough to replace it. And if it gets an accident where it’s total and you just will have to go to war with the, uh, you might get an award. The insurance company. So I’m just kind of just an unfortunate thing in aviation.

Yeah, I think a lot of united that I did, and I’ve got an airplane, I’ve been a pilot a long time and um, we, uh, the way aviation works is whatever your stated value, then that’s what they’ll pay up to. So, uh, you know, uh, for example, the play not have, I think I’ve just, I’ve got the state evaluated 100, $105,000. So they would pay no questions asked up to 105,000. And it’s probably $105,000 airplane that brand and I can replace it for one of the five. I’m bought it for 95. Uh, I could replace it for whatever five. So, um, but they would pay right out there. No questions asked. All my bills not is not the same way. Okay? And this is kind of an kind of quirky until you make a claim. You’ll probably never know this, but this covers damage to property when loading truck. And it does not matter

where are you are, it doesn’t matter if you’re inside the home and the top of a office building in a back storage shed anywhere you are, if you’re carrying an item, if you damage a hardwood floor, which is a nightmare if you damage a hardwood floor, if you knock a hole in the wall, uh, any type of property damage that occurs when you are taking an item from wherever it currently is in the final destination, at least for that job, is your truck that’s gonna fall under your automobile policy. So you need to make sure your guys are very careful with loading items. Obviously, I mean, and, and you’ll probably have like 500 that I’m not a 500,000 to $500 or $100 deductible. So generally you’re going to cover, you know, if it’s five in general, if it’s a thousand dollars, really $1,500 and less and we do damage somebody’s property, we’re going to go and pick up the tab or self.

Um, and luckily our first several years in operation when myself or Christian was on the truck, we, I don’t think we ever damaged anything. But as you grow and as you get more team members, they are going to make some more mistakes. So this is going to come into play with more. But at the same person damages property like more than once or twice the insurance company. Why she tell you, hey, if this person messes up again, you need to let them go there. They’re not going to be covered anymore. Or it could be on the first time, Hey, you need to let this person get it. So you did make it very clear to your guys that they have a lot of, a lot to lose a personally by making a mistake and you can’t put up with it if somebody is damaged property a lot and they get to get your, the, the, the, the health of your business depends on it. So somebody would get a, people got roll if they can’t keep messing stuff up.

Okay, this right here, it’s not just how much you pay is dependent on the value of your vehicles really. And how many vehicles you have a junk doctors. We pay about $16,000 a year in automobile insurance and that’s with a, I think we have 11 vehicles on that policy. Um, some dump trucks. And then we have a couple personal, not personal egos, not perfectly goes up like a non dump trump related stone, all business related, all commercial lady. But uh, is, is all my policy and we pay about $16,000 if you’re getting your check rates on this. But I mean, depending on the value of a drug, you have a $20,000 truck. And uh, it’s an r rated to 19 five. You’re going to be on it. You’re gonna have an experienced driver on it. I’m going to wager a, you’re gonna be somewhere around 12 to $1,500 for the year. That could very well behind that can be very high. So get a nice. You’ve been so August. We just had one vehicle so I just can’t remember. It seems like there’s a thousand bucks, hundred bucks and all of that. But I just have a good insurance agent. They’ll get you squared away there. And the final one is the Mac daddy of them all. And that is the dreaded worker’s compensation.

Worker’s compensation will become one of your largest expenses as you grow. Pay here. I’m going to put this on here because it’s such a large number. Uh, what is it about? It’s happening. I don’t know the final figure, but it’s roughly $45,000 a year that we pay for jumped doctors. About $45,000 a year. We pay for junk doctors. No, it’s based on payroll. Percentage of payroll when you first start 12 percent and start these were all ranks. Uh, we are currently at six percent. I think it’s six point five percent.

Okay. So what that means is that every $100 in payroll, you’re going to pay $12 at the start of every $100 in payroll. We’re currently, we’re paying about $6 and fifty cents at the star. It’s based on the experience is the fact we have had very few workers compensation claims who trying to couple. We had a, we’ve had an expensive too expensive ones. Had One guy, they didn’t have the proper gloves on, grab a piece of 10. I was going to rip the 10 off the, uh, often often refer shit and sliced into his hand damaged ligaments and all, I think worker’s comp pay down about 16 K or lamps. And then, um, we had, uh, we had some guy, we had a bogus claim against us where we’re so damn idiot a claims. He was lifting a bookshelf up into the back of the truck and it had hurt his back.

He hurt his back so bad. Um, so we, that guy, he got paid out for awhile and finally we wound up suing us. Of course, you know, your worker’s comp company covers all legal bills and then they defend you. So roll, you generally don’t have to do a whole lot. The worker’s comp company will covered. It’s a bogus claim, a, there’s a light book shelf. The guys just to a damn went and he’s just trying to try to gain the system and just collect money for doing no work. He’s, he’s part of one of the big problems in America right now, trying to get something for nothing. I don’t respect him whatsoever. And uh, you know, uh, I, uh, hopefully there’ll be that completely wrapped up because I know it’s a bogus claim and it’s drive his jacket. Everybody’s writes it up. Everybody’s rates up Jack itself.

But I think they total payout maybe 15, 20,011. So six years we’ve been in business a is what, $36,000 or something that’s will have been paid out over the time period. And yet we’re paying to, they’re getting it. They’re still making damn good money because, I mean we’re paying $45,000 for the year and we haven’t been paying $45,000 all six years because, you know, when we first started it was a couple thousand dollars and then it was probably $10,000 and it was 30,000 announced $45,000. So, but still with well overpaid that $36,000, I’m one of the biggest savings is don’t have a cover you. So myself and Christian is officers are junk doctors are not covered on our worker’s compensation policy. Otherwise it would jack it up. I mean our salaries alone.

Yeah, I mean the jacket of another $14,000 a year roughly. So you’ve got to, you got to make sure, uh, you know, if you’re, you need to be careful and I would suggest don’t cover you. Um, make sure you have good health insurance. Your health insurance will cover it if you’re the owner of the business. I believe, again, I’m not 100 percent positive in your particular state or email, 100 percent of pause in the state of North Carolina. My understanding of it is though that if you get injured on the job, your health insurance policy will cover your bills, but you’re not going to be paid for your time off. So I don’t generally I say don’t cover you and verify everything that I’m saying. Verify everything I’m saying in this video. Don’t just rely on me. I’m not an insurance expert, but I know enough about it to feel comfortable at least giving you the questions to ask your insurance agent.

A lot of you are going to get worker’s comp. I know that. Uh, I would be very nervous. We did and we did it for awhile. Stay North Carolina. I think it’s three employees as the threshold when we were under three. I’m not counting the owners when we’re under three. We did not have work comp and I didn’t really have a whole lot to lose at that time so they could have sued them for so much. I didn’t have a house, I didn’t have a whole lot of assets or anything like that. But you need to, if you’ve got any assets built up, if you’ve had a previous job, a corporate job, and you’ve, you’ve got a house and you’ve got a family, you have a family and you’ve got some, some assets to your name you need to your workshop, don’t skimp on it. It’s expensive.

It can, it can place your profitability, can put off your profitability for several months or a year or whatever, but it can financially ruin you. Again, what’s the point of insurance to keep you from being financially ruined? This can keep you from getting from this. This can make you financially ruined. He can also run you out of business. So, uh, and you can, you can, you can go to jail and you know, if you’re, if you’re breaking the law, if you don’t have worker’s comp and you have over the threshold of employees and somebody gets hurt and can’t get paid, you can act. You can go to jail for this. So I mean, this is, this is, this is a major thing. Works column is a big, big, big, big deal. Don’t underestimate it and get covered as soon as humanly possible. Um, try to get our worker’s comp is, is a, uh, there’s a couple of boys going with it. A lot of times you do an estimated payroll so you actually pay monthly based on your estimated payroll. Uh, try and get it where it’s a pay as you go to get a bigger or so.

What I mean by that, you can ask your insurance agent instead of me just estimating my payroll, can you, can I submit payroll reports or can my payroll service submit payroll reports monthly and we’ll pay an invoice as we go. That prevents you from having to do an audit. Well, not necessarily have to do it all at the end of year. They still might all you. But uh, what happens is if you’re doing estimated payroll and you estimate your payroll at say $20,000 at the beginning of the year, and let’s say you have just one hellaciously, goodyear, we, you double or triple what you were expecting. So you’re expecting to pay $20,000 payroll. You wind up paying $60,000 in payroll. It’s easy forgetting his workers’ compensation saying, Hey, I need to update this. I need to update my estimate worker’s comp, and all of a sudden you get folded in the end of the year instead of you paid worker’s comp with $20,000 worth of payroll, but you’re sitting here.

It’s like, Oh shit, I’m at $60,000 worth of payroll. Uh, and so you’re going to pay three times, or you’re, you know, you’re going to, if you pay it on the 20,000 symbol, if you, if you paid a on that 20,000, you pay two grand worth of payroll and then all of a sudden you did three times that amount. You know, you’re, you’ve got to make up the $4,000 instead of 20,000 in payroll. That’s not a huge deal. But let’s go. Let’s say let’s go to a hunter valley will say you estimated at 100,000 worth the payroll and he was sort of been paying attaining 10 k and then all of a sudden you’ve got $300,000 worth of payroll. You should have. That means sugar paid 30 k, you got a $20,000 difference to make up a Wiki. We screwed up and I’m not going to go into the story because it’s a long one.

It was just a big area we screwed up and we had a $51,000 invoice for worker’s comp. Uh, it was, it was actually, we were not alternative one year. We had some circumstances having volunteered. We did not update our estimated payroll, so our payroll was all full of numbers from two years prior and we had doubled both those years. So we don’t have a business. That first year we doubled the business the next year, so our payroll was just tremendously higher than what we estimated. We had 51 grand, keeping an eye on the estimated payroll, trying to get a pay as you go. We’ve got one now. We love it. Every single month we just pay out how much business we had a, you know, for the. How much payroll. Yeah, it’s great employee dishonesty bond.

I’ve run out of room on here, but employee dishonesty bond basically just cover stamped. If employee steal something like jewelry, whatever, and covered cover staff is very cheap, like 500 bucks. Employee dishonesty bond though, you should go ahead and get it. The profit for the year, um,

made sure it. Ask about, make sure your policy, your liability, automobile and workers’ comp is fine. Listing additional insured or not, worker’s comp, automobile liability can list additional insured because a lot of infomercial companies you’d go with are going to want you to list them as an additional insured. So make sure they’re willing to do that. So policies charge, you need to see how much they charge and if you’re comfortable paying with that pain that if you ever have to deal with compliance depot, I’m so sorry. Health God, compliance depot is taking over, uh, the apartment industry at least in North Carolina. So compliance depot is actually companies, not even property management company. It’s a company that a management company hires to make sure that a vendor has the correct insurance and all their insurance information on file and it’s current. And, uh, they made sure they got a w nine form and anything else, uh, that, that particular apartment company wants.

The problem is, is they, they have compliance depot. It’s on a case by case basis, but many vendors, many property managers have become where they won’t like a million different owners listed as additional insurers. It’s either, it gets very expensive. We’re an insurance company, won’t do it. Compliance depot is a pain in the ass to deal with. I’m hoping somebody from compliance depot watches this. I’m hoping some apartment managers watch this. Compliance depot does a good job for their vendors are not the further for their customers, the apartment complexes, but I think it’s making it very difficult for apartment complex is to find a vendor for a certain, uh, for certain services. And they’ve had it surfaces they might’ve used for 10 years and all of a sudden these guys just cannot get covered under insurance. Uh, it can take us a month to get covered under compliance depot.

It’s a slow process. So if you have to do with compliance depot, uh, you might want to ask the insurance agent, have you dealt with compliance depot before? How does it work? You know, we need a policy that’s going to be, we need to work with an insurance company, uh, that’s going to help us out with compliance depot. Also don’t ever go directly to the insurance, go to an insurance broker. So go to an insurance broker that actually shops sit a multitude of different insurance companies. You’ll get the best rates that way and the best coverage.

There is some additional exposure you need to think about that. It’s tough to get insurance on. One is sensitive documents. Some of y’all might have watched a video, I had a earlier this week, own sensitive documents where we had a run in with that, um, or actually with some comic books that need to get destroyed. But anyway, watch that video if you will, uh, to kind of hear about that. But anytime you’re removing sensitive documents, you need to tell the customer these relevant to be. If you wanted to take him the landfill, we will. But you need to sign this form waiting as a major liability because what happened with that, what happens in transportation and what happens once it gets the landfill is beyond our control. You need a wave. All of us have all liability. Uh, before we haul these items, we recommend getting a shredding company to come straight up portrait of yourself, um, family and friends hiring you to come remove items at a, at a house.

Have a homeowner that isn’t there. So if it, if the homeowner is out of town, not there, and your family member or a friend comes and they want you to remove items, you need to get them. You need to have a form, you need to have an attorney draw, perform fewer Jra will, will help you provide you one. But you need an attorney draw draw before that is a power of attorney. So that means that, that the homeowner needs to sign it at that he is granting, uh, this particular person power returning to decide what goes in this home. So it’s a sticky situation. And, and you’re going to get from time to time, a wife or husband calls and says, Hey, my, my wife is out of town, my husband’s out of town, and he’s, you covered most of this stuff. So even there’s a little gray area there.

What if they’re going through a split? What if they’re getting separated? Technically they’ve got since if they’re listed as a homeowner, if they’re listed to the property and if they’re actually married, then you should be okay. But at the same time, if they’re going through a split or say Lakey, they got divorced. It wasn’t a current bly for current husband who was an ex wife or ex husband. Then you’ve got a situation going on there. So that’s just always stuff you kind of have to think about. I’m junking valuable items. We did a job for a, a prosthetic light company. And uh, several months after we did the job, they called us and accused us of, uh, taking some stuff that wasn’t being supposed to have been taken some prosthetic legs and dumping them. And they attached a $40,000 invoice to cover the missing inventory. So one, number one, there’s a moving company, they’re a, they could have taken stuff as well and that was on video number two.

We didn’t, we didn’t, we don’t. If we took them, we could have taken, we might not have, you know, they got, don’t do if we took them and they were so just like cardboard box you, if you have $40,000 worth of inventory wise, it incorporate box. It was a huge warehouse. We were clearing out. We asked them to please stay with us and kind of supervise and make sure we’re taking what’s supposed to be taking. They did not feel like that was necessary. They said take this and then we asked them to go through with us and we want to tag everything that’s not going um, or, or tag everything that is going in that case because there’s a lot of stuff is not going. They didn’t want to do that. So what happens is, is I call it insurance insurance. Contacted them basically say, listen, you are your negligent in this.

And there’s no proof that, that we actually took it. Another potential area of, uh, of, of liability is if you’re doing a job and a house and somebody actually is not there, so the homeowner is going to be present. You need to get them to sign a liability release saying you’re not responsible if anything goes missing or if you accidentally take anything that you weren’t supposed to take. If they’re not going to be there to supervise and you need to get that form signed. I hope everybody enjoyed this episode of a junk removal. Made simple again through the end of this week, uh, through the end of March, which is this week, a one hour consulting calls completely free. Nobody, $150 value, um, and typically have to buy at least two hours. So nobody’s spending at least $300 on it and that price is probably going to go up.

I’d like to double that price because in that hour you’re getting so much more. You’re getting 10 times or 100 times more than $150 an hour to speak with me on it because we’ve done similar to junk removal. I mean, it’s just an unlimited amount. If you have questions you can speak with me on like a hundred $50 going to answer your questions and that can be just, that could be thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars of benefit to you. Also ad words management. Um, again, you can use the same ad words policy that we’ve been using that we’ve perfected over six years. We, we manage everybody’s campaign, uh, threatened, get all throughout the country, take that campaign. And the thing is, is we’re not just building that as well, not just putting ads in places. We’ll customize the landing pages. We’ll add in maybe an online booking system.

If you don’t have one, we’ll work with you. Well, how are you talking to customers on the phone? So it’s a complete package that we offer because we know since we’re in the junk removal business, we know that it’s not the fact that the hours companies bringing you traffic is one has to be the right way and driving into they need to actually pick up the phone and call you. And then the third thing is you need to be able to close that sale. You need to be able to close the sale so it becomes a business. It becomes business for you at this is not cheap, not at all. Our average management valuable, we charge a valuable prize for his $2,500 for the first month to get everything set up and manage it for one month, 1750 for the months, two through five, and then $1,200 a month for month six on average.

But the thing is, it’s an investment. It’s an investment. So, and that doesn’t count paying google, you’re going to pay google. We want you to see him at minimum two grand. We want to see you three grand up paying google to. But again, it’s an investment guys. It’s not an and investment. We provide great profitable work. We put it in a lot of time into those. And we spent, we spent over $300,000 wasted ad spend $3,000 with a web traffic. They benefited junk doctors, not that had no benefit at all to junk doctors was spent. Um, so, uh, Helen take a 22 years to pay us management fees to get that $300,000. It’s just such an awesome deal. I wished Jerry was around, uh, some areas around when, when we started jumped doctors can, we need to save so much more money and uh, we, we learn stuff a hell of a lot quicker.

A business packages on sale. $50,000. It wasn’t 25 that’s been missed out on. It’s now 50,000. Uh, it’s old. It’s way up to 75,000. So if you’re considering getting into the junk removal business, now’s the time to do it or get ready to go to the busy season. We’d have to run into months. That will put you getting open now, right here at the end of May, first of June. And you’d have some great months. June, July, August, September, and are very, very busy. Season is a very busy time for the junk removal industry. So I’ll get on it now. Quick delay in, give us a call. Nine, one, nine, six, two, two, two, six, nine, eight, nine. One, nine, six, two, two, two, six, nine, eight, over everybody had a great epa. Really enjoyed this episode. I will have more coming to you before you know it. Thanks Jordan.